BEATRIX: Hola! Hola! Hola! My name is Queen Beatrix. Welcome to a new episode of Trucha en la Lucha! Y’all, I have been busy. It has been a minute, but I’m so happy to be back here with you. This episode is really one that I think is important, it’s part of a necessary conversation that we need to have as a community about abortion access.
Our guests today are from Frontera Fund, so, make some noise for Frontera Fund! We’re going to talk about why Frontera Fund exists, the kind of work that they do in our community, and why it’s important to talk about abortion so make sure y’all stick around.
At the end of the episode, we will have a special musical appearance, special little music video from L@s Skagaler@s from right here in the Rio Grande Valley about Rosie Jimenez, and y’all it’ll make sense, watch the episode I’ll see y’all a bit!
Thank you so much for being here today. I’m super excited to have this conversation with you all today. We have some amazing guests with us. I will go ahead and let them introduce themselves. If y’all wanna introduce yourselves, please write your name, your pronouns, and your title.
ZAENA: My name is Zaena Zamora, I use she/her/ella pronouns and I am the Executive Director of Frontera Fund.
CATHY: I’m Cathy Torres, I serve on the board of directors of Frontera Fund, and I use she/her and ella pronouns.
BEATRIX:Thank y’all so much for taking time to have this very important conversation, super relevant to our region, and to our state, and the work that y’all do is amazing. So, I wanted to start from the beginning right. Tell us about Frontera Fund, when did it start, why did it get started, and what kind of work do y’all do?
ZAENA: So Frontera Fund started in 2015, it was brought together by a group of young queer cis women in the valley who really saw a need for abortion funding here in the Rio Grande Valley. There’s other abortion funds in Texas, but there was none that really serviced our area exclusively, so it was kind of a five year project. It started in 2015 and after five years, they were going to reevaluate to see if they had met their goals, or if they hadn’t, to kind of had to dismantle themselves and since then Frontera Fund has really grown a lot and we’ve been able to really thrive in the valley currently. So we’re still growing and we’re still trying to have bigger capacity to help more people in the valley, but there’s a really big need in the valley for Frontera Fund, and Cathy can tell you what we do.
CATHY: What we do is fund abortion. We help people with their procedures specifically, but we also provide practical support. So, say someone here from the RGV needs to travel out of the RGV for their abortion, we can help with transportation costs, with hotel, even ground transportation when they’re there, because how are folks going to get from their hotel to the clinic. So it’s practical support, as well as direct procedure support. And, we also try and help out other community organizations here since we’re all, doing mutual aid efforts. So we are pretty well grounded, But, you know we’re here to fund abortion for folks in the RGV or folks coming to the RGV.
BEATRIX: Thank you Cathy, Zaena, real quick, why is it important that we have these resources available to people, and specifically why do we need them here in the Rio Grande Valley?
ZAENA: Abortion is really expensive. That’s one reason that we’re needed. The valley, I think, has the most expensive- it’s the most expensive place to have an abortion, so the starting cost for an abortion in the Rio Grande Valley is around $800. So, it’s really expensive. There’s no other way to phrase that, it’s just a really expensive procedure and Texas law prohibits people with Medicaid, it prohibits people with even private insurance from getting abortion covered. Abortion is healthcare and it should be covered under, insurance, but it is not, and not to mention that Texas has one of the highest uninsured rates so a lot of people are having to pay for this out of pocket. Another reason the work we do is so important is because Texas has had so many clinics shut down. A lot of the clinics that were around like five, six years ago are no longer around,. the clinic in the valley, Whole Woman’s Health in McAllen is the only clinic south of San Antonio. We live in Texas, we know how big the state is. So traveling is a big part of getting abortion care, there’s a lot of abortion deserts where there’s no place to get an abortion say in like, Laredo or Corpus Christi. So those people are having to drive hundreds, over 100 miles to get the care that they need. Not to mention that abortion takes time, and it’s not necessary time. The laws that Texas has enacted and the restrictions makes people wait 24 hours to get an abortion. So you’re taking time away from whatever you have to do if you’re doing hourly labor then, that’s time away from earning your wage. If you need childcare to help, somebody can take care of your children while you’re going to your appointment, that’s childcare expenses that you have to do. So the reason we do the work we do is to really help people get the care that they need.
CATHY: Not only is there a ridiculous distance to our clinic here in the valley to San Antonio, what’s in between that? The checkpoint. So you have a population of the Rio Grande Valley who have different citizenship statuses that are unable to leave the valley to get an abortion. So we found that we need to be available for individuals specifically for that reason. In general we have to be here. We wish we can live in a world where we don’t have to exist, where people can just like walk in and get their abortion on demand. That is the goal, but that’s what we’re fighting for. That’s why we do this direct work to just pay for the abortion and try to make it to alleviate any financial barriers that we can. You know, since Roe v Wade was passed, Henry Hyde himself a few years later, basically stated that “if I can’t ban abortion I’ll just make it hard for low income people to get it.” So there’s always just disproportion attacks on low income individuals, people with differences citizenship statuses to obtain an abortion, and we’re here to alleviate that as best as we can.
BEATRIX: What are the dangers when people aren’t able to access abortion care? Like, what are the dangers that folks can face when they don’t have, or can’t get, the support of groups like Fontera Fund?
CATHY: Primarily, that is not being able to access abortion care directly stomps on our body autonomy to make decisions for ourselves and our futures, and being able to nurture ourselves, our families, decide whether we want to parent in the future. It sounds very arbitrary, but our bodily autonomy is who we are and how we navigate our lives. A lot of times there’s so many societal reasons that place our lives in danger because of our gender, our race, our socio economic status, and it shouldn’t be that way, but it is. So because of that, we need to have access to abortion care to plan the course of our lives accordingly safely and with dignity. That’s the concept of reproductive justice that’s the framework that we try and maintain. And it’s an important framework because, like I said, it’s how we navigate our lives.
BEATRIX: You know, what is the most rewarding part of the work that y’all
ZAENA: For me it’s just being able to help people. I think people will have a very stereotypical view of the type of person who gets an abortion but, I think people need to realize abortion is completely normal. All types of people get abortions for a multitude of reasons. We never ask somebody why they’re getting an abortion because really it’s none of our business, and we’re just there to help them with the decision that they made. And it’s just, it’s the simple things like getting the message like, “oh my god you guys helped me so much, thank you”, or, you know, just things like that. It’s just being able to help the people from the Rio Grande Valley, and also just doing it without any sort of judgment on our end. I feel there’s a lot of stigma. The valley is very conservative and its views on abortion in a lot of areas and I feel a lot of times these people are navigating their care. It’s very isolating for them and it can be hard doing something like this alone, so I think having us there, and just being able to help people is the most rewarding part of the work.
BEATRIX: How about you Cathy?
CATHY: One of the other more rewarding things for me is that we have the means to help. That’s been our overall goal, to help people pay for their abortions and we’re able to fund people weekly, and that’s exciting, and it’s also exciting to see the community come together and help us achieve that goal. We just had our fund-a-thon where we exceeded our $10,000 goal, it was really great because that was really- it was strictly a good community effort. All of those funds go directly to funding abortion so it always feels so good to reach those goals, to raise those funds, because we firsthand see where it goes directly so that’s, that’s what’s exciting being able to do it.
BEATRIX: So we’ve talked a little bit about the work that y’all do. Zaena you did touch on something that I want you know kind of expand on a little bit about these kind of like conservative views on abortion and abortion access that, unfortunately we see a lot of here in the Rio Grande Valley. What would be your message to folks who have those conservative views, and yeah, like what would you tell them to help them understand why this work is necessary.
ZAENA: I always go back to the national network of abortion. And I love this phrase that goes “everybody loves someone who’s had an abortion.” Abortion is so normal that somebody in your life whether you know it or not, has had an abortion. And I think it’s really important to get a holistic view of what it means for someone to get an abortion. Abortion is healthcare. It is something that is completely normal, it is something that’s been around since pregnancy has been around, and people are doing, making the best decisions for themselves and for their lives and I don’t think we as people should be judgmental on other people in making these decisions, because we have absolutely- this doesn’t impact our lives at all, and we want what’s best for our community, and what’s best for our community is people having the dignity and to have the choice to decide what is best for them. And usually pregnant people, people who can get pregnant are discriminated against in so many different ways, even for the fact of being pregnant. We see people who are, who get pregnant get discriminated against in jobs, there’s no, there’s not a lot of support for people who get pregnant as far as maternal leave, child support that kind of stuff. So, when people are making these decisions they are really just doing it because this is what is best for them. I’ve always tried to come from a place of love and understanding and compassion. That’s the best way to do everything, and I would tell them like come from a place of love and come from a place of compassion and try to imagine what it’s like to be in these people’s shoes. You don’t know what their life is going through, you don’t know if they’re having to make this decision because they need to pay rent, or they have to buy diapers for the baby that they already have. You need to come with a holistic view and a very compassionate view and a very loving view.
BEATRIX: Cathy what would be your message to folks who put a lot of stigma or continue to perpetuate the stigma around abortion access?
CATHY: Like what Zaena mentioned and to put it bluntly, just mind your business. It’s not anything that’s impacting them whatsoever. And I guess, you know, people are entitled to their opinion but you know, when that opinion becomes violent and starts to infringe on our rights, quite frankly, then there’s no need for it whatsoever. That kind of viewpoint goes out the door. Last session, there was a arson attempt at our clinic here in McAllen, So when those views, these movements, these pro life moments, the anti choice movements, deny us of our right to abortion become violent, it goes out the window. There’s no need for it, and they need to mind their business.
BEATRIX: I mean, I’m in drag, but outside of drag, I am a cis gay man, and it always just rubs me the wrong way when like, a lot of these people are like basically opening their mouth, and spewing a lot of hate and like we said there was, as we were setting up for this there was and, you know, a potential shooting or there probably was a shooting in San Antonio, at a clinic and it’s just like, you know all that energy for what? Like what are you really getting out of that? When it’s like, clearly not your body. Clearly not your choice, but people somehow feel entitled, and I mean for me especially with stuff like this, with this series, it’s like we want to bring these conversations to the forefront. And I remember when we did the first iteration of drag out HIV with Valley Aids Council. It’s a drag queen training and mentorship program, specifically around HIV but we did have a presentation from some advocates from Planned Parenthood because we really wanted the queens to see the intersections of like abortion access, and the challenges the queer community faces, and it was really eye opening because some folks just have never been exposed to those conversations, but doing it in a way that like was like, understand where you come from, as a person and as an entertainer and like how you can use your voice and your platform to advocate, not just for the work and the challenges we face as queer people, but also for people who also need abortion access and so, again, y’all. Thank you so much for the work that y’all do, you know, we can’t talk about abortion access in the Rio Grande Valley without talking about Rosie Jimenez. It’s a name that you know comes up a lot in our community down here in South Texas. If you can tell me a little bit about Rosie Jimenez who she was, and why she is important to the work that y’all do.
CATHY: So Rosie Jimenez, she was a McAllen native right. Now her story really resonates in the movement and in folks here in the RGV because she unfortunately passed away due to a botched abortion. Prior to that, she was a single mother, a student, a hard working parent, and a couple years after Roe v Wade was passed, Henry Hyde filed what’s called the Hyde Amendment and the Hyde Amendment restricted federal funds from covering abortion, meaning restricted Medicaid from covering abortion and even insurances. So Rosie ended up being pregnant and didn’t want to be, so she sought abortion care and was going to hopefully utilize her Medicaid to cover that but she was denied because the Hyde Amendment had just passed. So in doing that, she had a scholarship check in her pocket and she went and she sought care by her own means. Unfortunately that led to sepsis and she passed away. So she’s one of the first documented cases of people passing away as a direct result of the Hyde Amendment, and she was from the RGV from McAllen. Could be your sister and, you know, one of us is and was one of us. So because of that, that just sort of struck shockwaves, through our community and through folks in the abortion rights movement, because, Rosie should still be here. That shouldn’t have been the reason why she left. She should still be here, she should still be in community with us. And you know, hearing from her, her daughter, who we, as abortion funds communicated with, since we’ve filed Rosie’s Law, you know, based off of what her daughter says we know that Rosie would be right here with us like fighting the good fight, because she was really cool and vibrant and like with it at the time. So even though we didn’t meet her personally we missed her, because like I said she should still be here.
BEATRIX: I always find Rosie’s story very compelling because like you said Cathy, it’s someone that looks like us and someone who is from our community, and who was facing the same challenges that we all do on a day to day basis. We know what it’s like to be from from this region and, low income unfortunately, you know, with with Rosie, I mean, she really has inspired and continues to inspire a lot of people and a lot of advocates in our community to do the work that we do especially y’all, who are there on the frontlines helping people get the care that they need, and she’s even inspired you know legislation and I know that every two years in Texas, our state leadership comes together to work on proposing bills and new legislation and tinker the budget in Texas. Tell us a little bit about Rosie’s Law, what is Rosie’s Law and what is the purpose of that law?
ZAENA: Sure, so as Cathy mentioned the story of Rosie, I think what’s important is to note in that story that Rosie had insurance, she had Medicaid right but due to the Hyde Amendment she was not able to get the care that she needed because Medicaid is not allowed to cover abortion care. So Rosie’s Law is a law that was organized by us and other two of our sibling funds, Lilith Fund which helps Central Texas and Texas Equal Access Fund which helps in North Texas around the Dallas, Fort Worth area. We got together, together this law called Roses Law. It was introduced to the Texas Legislature and what Rosie’s law would do is, it would restore private insurance and Medicaid coverage of abortion. So, right now Rosie’s law is kind of stuck in committee, if we were trying to get it to get a hearing we’ve had multiple legislators signed on as co authors but, this is the types of proactive law that we really really need to push in the Texas legislature where a lot of the time we’re playing defense as far as abortion care, it feels like every two years they’re working on, chipping away and chipping away and chipping away at access. So Rosie’s Law is one of many proactive laws in the Texas ledge that is looking to expand abortion care.
BEATRIX: The ledge is almost over, but we see them working on all these other bills that are not proactive. They’re full on detrimental and practically I mean, the way I see some of these other abortion bills at the ledge, they’re just scary. I know right now they’ve been pushed I think SB8, Senate Bill Eight. Y’all want to talk about Senate Bill Eight, what is Senate Bill Eight and what are the dangers with that bill.
ZAENA: Where do we begin? There’s a lot of- it’s a lot to unpack. So Senate Bill Eight is a bill that would restrict abortion to when fetal cardiac activity is present, right so when a person is able to hear, a doctor is able to hear a heartbeat, and that’s usually around six weeks of pregnancy. So it’s essentially an abortion ban. What really makes an abortion ban is a lot of people don’t know they’re pregnant at or around six weeks. So if you have a regular menstrual cycle that is two weeks after your missed period then you would have to know by then that you’re pregnant, and again that’s assuming you have a regular menstrual cycle, a lot of people don’t have that. Another thing that really makes it an almost near total ban is that the current Texas law requires that doctors perform ultrasounds and they need to be able to see the fetus on the ultrasound. There’ll be times when we get callers who we’ll ask like “oh did you get your ultrasound?” and they’ll say, oh it was too early. So usually by the time the doctor can see the fetus is when they can hear the heartbeat. So if they can’t see the fetus and they can’t perform the abortion, and by the time they see the fetus and the heartbeat is present, then they’re not allowed to perform the abortion. So it’s kind of like, well, there’s not going to be a way to have an abortion. On top of that already restrictive law, they put language in the bill that creates a civil cause of action that will allow anybody from the United States or anybody to sue anyone who helps somebody get an abortion in Texas. So, basically it is a total attack on abortion funds, and basically anybody who would help anybody get an abortion in Texas. Your Uber driver, having a friend, drive you to the clinic. Can you imagine? Like, I have a daughter and if my daughter says that “I want an abortion”, I would be right there with her to help her. Imagine somebody suing you for helping your own daughter or your own friend or your own family member, your mother, whoever, like helping them get health care. That’s what this bill does, it will go into effect on September 1st. We’re hoping that it’s going to get challenged legally, but you know it’s it’s a very dangerous bill because, even if it does get challenged legally I think a part of all these restrictive bills is to create this really confusing narrative around abortions that people feel like even if it gets challenged, it’s already in the air that “oh abortion is illegal”, right, and so it creates a lot of really confusing narrative around the legality of abortion, but just to kind of really bring it home, abortion is legal in Texas, and it is still legal in Texas and Frontera Fund is here. We’re going to fight with our other sibling funds to make sure that we’re going to continue trying to help people get the care that they need.
BEATRIX: What are your concerns Cathy with Senate Bill Eight?
CATHY: All of the above for sure but, like, it’s also just annoying how strategic they are when they file these bills. With the civil cause of action that’s also going to cause just a bunch of frivolous lawsuits. That’s going to delay the process, and they know that. So that way it becomes too late, and folks will have to seek health care or seek care out of the state. Again, that’s what we’re here for. We are totally here, and we’re going to work towards being able to do that, to help you, help people get the care out of state should this pass. We’re fully prepared for that. It’s just so frustrating that that is like the end goal, like they know that Roe v Wade is the law of the land so just like they’ve done in previous years, they make these laws knowing they’re completely barbaric, and sometimes they do get passed and then there goes just a bunch of delays. Same thing with the mandatory ultrasound. Why? Why? Same thing with having to go to the clinic just to take a pill. Why? So it’s all of these little things that they do to delay the process, because they know they can’t ban it, but they’ll do everything they can to nearly ban it just like SB8.
BEATRIX: Yeah, they just make it really really hard. I mean that’s why we lost so many clinics a couple years ago, because of state legislation again that like came in, and then also there was like all these CPCs that get funded by the state that like- CPCs for folks who are watching are crisis pregnancy centers. Unfortunately we have several of them here in the Rio Grande Valley, they are not real places, I mean they’re real places in the sense that they’re there, but they’re not anywhere you would want to go to get any kind of health care, because they’re from what I know they’re not even real medical professionals. They cosplay medical doctors.
ZAENA: I think what’s really interesting about, well it’s not interesting, it’s very upsetting about SB8, is it is particularly detrimental to our population because as Cathy said we get a lot of callers who are undocumented. So, one of the workarounds we’re seeing in SB8 is we will be able to send callers out of Texas, but the problem with undocumented collars are people with certain immigration status, they cannot travel. So, they’re stuck. What are they going to do? Abortion is not going to go anywhere. Abortion will still happen. I think what you’re going to see is a rise in unsafe abortions, and a rise in self managed abortions, which are not necessarily unsafe. So self managed abortion is something that is- can be a safe thing to do, but it is also not legal in Texas. So you’re putting a lot of people’s lives in danger.
BEATRIX: With no consideration of the people that it’ll impact, what kind of effect that will have in the family and my community. I mean, here in Texas specifically and in our region, there are so many bills and so many things that our state leadership could be focusing on. Like, we still don’t have answers about this winter freeze situation. My power went out this week with like a little bit of a thunderstorm for like five hours and I was like, triggered and so many things that our leaders could be focusing on but they spend their time, literally, passing these legislations that are, again, just going to further marginalize people to a place where we’re going to have unsafe abortions. I mean if you, if y’all want, if y’all can like, you don’t have to go into full detail but like what would be considered unsafe abortion.
CATHY: Like what Zaena said, self managed abortions can be safe and it’s something that can be done, but it’s it’s more the risk that people may not have access to do that properly or safely, and will end up in situations where there can be complications, may go with individuals that don’t- can’t, legally can’t do them, and they get sick, and may get ill or they’ll do other things to try and attempt by their own means. And that can even mean, you know, putting themselves at risk, not to mention a lot of people who do not want to be pregnant and who don’t want to parent, and they’re potentially being forced to. That has a detrimental effect on someone’s mental health. So, you know, if someone kind of falls into that loop that can also be potentially dangerous. So there’s so many different ways that there could be dangers, and that’s just a few, you know, there’s all kinds of stories out there. We’ve been asked questions, by callers and there’s so many different ways that this could, you know, things could go wrong, and there’s also options to do it at home, like I said. But if people don’t have that means, then any other type of means could potentially be dangerous.
BEATRIX: Well my last two questions. One is a real question, the other one’s more like where can folks plug-in, let’s end on a positive note. I know we still don’t know what’s happening in San Antonio, by the time this video airs maybe we’ll have more information. So we’ll be praying for those people who may or may not have been impacted by that. But what is your hope for abortion access in our community here?
ZAENA: I always think, doing this work that I’m hoping that I work myself out of a job. You know what I mean? I don’t want abortion funds to have to exist. The reason we exist is because there is a need. If I had my way, there would be- you would be able to do like telemedicine, get the pills over- like, get them mailed to you do, it in the privacy of your own home, you know, not be harassed by people outside of a clinic and just to have abortion accessible to anybody who needs it. And that would be the ideal situation Just if you needed it, you got it. No questions asked, no judgments, no- no harassment nothing, and you’re able to get the care that you need, and this is true for any care really. I mean in the United States if you got- if you needed an abortion, if you have cancer if you whatever, you broke your arm that you’re able to get the care that you needed, and it wouldn’t cost you a penny and you would be able to feel like you’re taken care of.
CATHY: My dream is to not exist, that people can go in to their OBGYN- it could be offered with your like gyno or something. Something so basic, so routine, not really routine but, something you can do on a whim if you need it you go and get it and you’re good to go. Maybe we could exist as abortion doulas that can get people, you know, care packages and offer spas. People who obtain the medication they don’t want to do it alone, they can come to our spa facility the Frontera Fund spa or something like that. Channel our energy that way, in nonjudging judgement post abortion support because we live in a society where abortion is normal and okay, because it is. There’s no push back. So that would be really really neat. That’d be pretty fun too.
BEATRIX: Well thank y’all for sharing those hopes and dreams with us. But luckily we have y’all, we have Frontera Fund, we have all our funds across Texas, we have different funds across the state of Texas, but we have y’all here in the Rio Grande Valley to support the people in our communities who do seek abortion care. I’m just so glad that y’all have come in to do this work with no judgment, no stigma and no fear, and just being fearless, and really doing the hard work so I just want to thank y’all so much for everything that y’all do, y’all are doing amazing work. Please continue to do work that- please continue to do this work on anything that I can do to uplift it I mean, this conversation was- the point of the series is to uplift the people doing this kind of work across different issues in our community. So I’m glad that we’re going to sit down this morning and have this conversation. Where can folks plug in to Frontera Fund? And, yeah, what kind of stuff can people do, can they, you know, other than donating what kind of stuff do y’all need support with?
ZAENA: They can reach us, we have all of our socials, we’re on Twitter @lafronterafund, on Instagram @fronterfundrgv on Facebook and we just, I think Google Frontera Fund to be able to find it, or on Facebook search through there. We’re also on the web, fronterafundrgv.org. We are always- right now we are really building capacity to onboard volunteers, so we’re really looking for people to help us, help us, you know, do the day to day work that we do take calls, help people get the care that they need. Doing the advocacy work you know making those calls to the representatives and letting them know to support Rosie’s Law and not to support anti abortion legislation. And you know, just have conversations about abortion say the word, you know, don’t use some weird inuendo like, “oh the procedure” or you know something like that, like, say the word abortion, talk to your family talk to the- to your community about what you feel is important about abortion and have those conversations because if we’re- we continue having these conversations like in- like on the low down, and you know we’re never going to break that stigma. So, little simple things like that. Say the word abortion. Because it’s just the medical procedure right it’s like, it’s not a big deal. And, yeah, have those conversations with the community and your family and, you know, I- I come from a very very Catholic family. A lot of people in the valley, I’m from the Valley I grew up here I come from a very Catholic family on my husband’s side, my side like we’re just, you know, we grew up very Catholic, so we were kind of educated about abortion in a very conservative view but I’ve- it never sat well with me the way they were always kind of dictating especially female bodies or, you know pregnant bodies. And so I always was like oh I’m pro choice and, you know, even doing this work, my family has come around to being really supportive, even if they’re not 100% on board, you know, it’s important to kind of push those boundaries a little bit, little by little to kind of break that stigma.
CATHY: But after you like our socials and interact with them, like, sort of like check into our social media, you know our profiles and stuff because we are navigating the COVID situation, seeing how things play out but I love a big event, so we’re hoping for that day to come back, but you know we’re doing virtual events we have stuff going on, we had a lot going on with fund-a-thon, you know, we’re hoping we can have more events going on, more fundraiser is going on. We could use help with those. So yeah keep posted. And also, like, a big reminder is that yeah, talk about abortion, it’s okay we need to destigmatize this word, it’s just- it’s not a dirty word it’s abortion care. It’s normal. And believe it or not, one thing that I came across when I was sort of just starting, you know, in the abortion movement abortion rights movement was the over- overwhelmingly the people you talk to are pro choice, you know, there’s just so much stigma that people feel like we can’t talk about it like abortion is taboo, but, you know, more often than not, if you talk to someone about it, they’ll be like, you know like I am pro choice, and maybe you just hadn’t had that conversation before, you know, so just talking about it and, you know, bring it up nonchalantly in conversation, like creates shockwaves. Just last year because of this the destigmatizing work we’ve been doing with Frontera Fund for a few years now. Last year we had the most positive news reports we’ve ever had, you know like news outlets, shouting out our bakesale news outlets talking to us about it, you know, and that is like a first thing you know, and you know every year is different, every reporter is different right but that is sort of like to me a little bit of proof, showing that talking about it is working. So yeah, don’t be afraid. And if you need, you know, how do I have this conversation with my, with my, you know, friend or with you know I feel like we’re happy to help with that too, like it’s, you know, providing with those resources to disenfranchise abortion here in the RGV is, is pretty important to us too.